26 (edited by buzzzo 2015-01-07 18:55:16)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

What worried me is not the closed source model ... but the price per mailboxes model...

If An unlimited mailboxes price cost more (and more i mean much more) than the "older" unlimited model I'm wondering  what  differentiate the project (and with the project i mean the whole iredmail)  from other supposed open source mail system (like zimba etc etc).

Speak frankly iredadmin ose is quite unusable for a "serious" admin's work because it has few functionalities , and the
removal of product like phpmyadmin and phpldapadmin from the iredmail 0.90 does not help.

In the end it seems that you would force users to use the iredadminpro , which is good in the past for me as it does not cost
too much ... but now ?

Thx.

27

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

I currently have IRedAdmin-Pro. The license for this expired in November last year, I didn't extend the license because I didn't agree with the 33% (or thereabouts) price increase that happened early 2014; It does not reflect inflation or even global economic developments. Like Wallace I subscribed to support a great open source development so with the source moving to a closed model I have even more reason to not want to subscribe.
My main concern with this development is this;

After license expired, iRedAdmin-Pro will be unaccessible

. Does this mean that my already expired IRedAdmin-Pro will stop working in the near future? When I paid for my initial subscription I read a statement that said that even after the license expires IRedAdmin-pro will keep working, you're just not entitled to updates and support. Am I to understand that this is no longer true?

28

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

ZhangHuangbin wrote:
wallace wrote:

This does not change and we can always add our features as before.

You need APIs in this case. Of course you can do the same with source code, but APIs is the best way.

API access are useful for creating a user or to set a remote setting.
In our case we integrate the menus forms for our homemade antispam that will allow a particular server to communicate with the email server and other settings. This requires access to sources.

Like your decision seems irrevocable I think we'll stay on the latest version without updating as it works and we will reinstall a new server with other truly open source solutions ... sad

29

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

I don't understand excactly how the new license model would work.

I hope the flow would be this:

1) I will buy an unlimited or mailbox based license
2) When it expire I would not be able to update the software anymore
3) But i'm able to use it as I've bought a  software and not a service

This make sense, not pay every year for use the iredadmin , otherwise it seems a classic "pay per use" license mode.

30

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

wallace wrote:

In our case we integrate the menus forms for our homemade antispam that will allow a particular server to communicate with the email server and other settings. This requires access to sources.

Would you mind sharing more details? how it works and what did you modify in iRedAdmin-Pro?

----

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31

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

I think you guys are right, iRedAdmin-Pro should stay accessible after license expired.
I updated the license terms in first post, removed the "unaccessible" term.

This is why we always announce upcoming changes 1 month before we actually apply the changes, we want to hear from you to prevent stupid mistake.

----

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32 (edited by buzzzo 2015-01-08 17:31:15)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Thx Zhang

Excellent work, as usual.

33

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Zhang,

May I suggest possible changes on the open source issue? There are many people that probably won't care about this but there are going to be a number of the most technically advanced users that this is going to alienate to the point they will stop using and recommending your software.

1. The first possibility is that you simply charge more for source access as a separate license. This would still allow people that need to make changes (for example to integrate inhouse proprietary systems like spam filters) to do so and you would know who is doing it allowing you to query about the changes and see if they are valuable.

2. The second possibility is that you simply eliminate distribution rights on the source so that they can only alter the source of the license they took out. Honestly this probably wouldn't change much.

3. The third possibility (and the one that would benefit you the most) is require that all source changes be provided back unless they buy a special license that allows them to keep the changes confidential, this way you would get all changes back to evaluate. Combine this with option 1 and you know who's making changes and get them back and would be able to check for compliance.

I'd suggest you reconsider taking it completely closed source, in my opinion your most valuable customers are those customers so technically advanced they are making changes because they are the ones recommending your product to others. From reading your previous thread your biggest concern with open source was that no one was providing changes back, using one of the above suggestions you could counter that concern without closing the door. 

As others have already said, having the admin open source and modifiable is an item that makes your product more valuable than others and is a selling point. From a corporate point of view purchasing the admin interface from you is more acceptable because if you go out of business there is a guarantee they can support the software in the future. There will be many larger companies that wouldn't buy from a company your size without this guarantee, even if it cost more.

I've been very happy with iredmail and iredmail admin pro, but everything being open source including the pro interface was one of the selling points for me. I hope you change your mind about this.

Trent

34

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Hi Trent,

Thanks for sharing your opinions. I'm open to discuss all possibilities. smile

About close source, here's the motivation:

*) I received many emails from iRedMail users, they complained the price of iRedAdmin-Pro is too high for a small company or home user. So i think we should choose the same pricing model as other commercial products like Zimbra, Atmail, etc, go pricing based on number of mailboxes. If this pricing model works for them, it should work for iRedAdmin-Pro too. This way we can benefit more customers.

By the way, please tell me honestly, is $399/$799 expensive ? I understand people don't want to buy iRedAdmin-Pro for family, it should be easily affordable to a company, even for a small company, right? It's much cheaper than an unlocked iPhone.

Maybe we should give up small companies/home users who don't want to pay $399/$799, and keep iRedAdmin-Pro staying open source like before, and only one price since Feb 1 ($399, one-year license). That's simple.

*) i asked many customers (via email) in several months before i announced this change (close source), "is it ok for you if iRedAdmin-Pro goes close source"? most of them said "it doesn't matter", because they don't need to modify source code to implement additional features.

*) No one told me that he/she modified iRedAdmin-Pro to achieve features he want (in forum or email), and of course no one mail me his/her patches for new features. Some customers reported iRedAdmin-Pro bugs, but very few customers submitted patches. i understand not everyone knows Python programming language, that's fine. Or they don't really care about source code. Maybe because i always provide patch in a short time, so that don't bother to take a look at the source code themselves.

Currently, sale of iRedAdmin-Pro is the major income of iRedMail project, the profit keeps iRedMail project moving on. iRedMail project started in 2007, and i'm the only one working on this, for 7 years. but i don't think it can work this way in the future. because i found i don't have enough time to catch up other required skills like docker, cluster, Erlang, i also want to build some new and interesting softwares/products around iRedMail project,  i want to hire some talents to work with me. With current profit (from selling iRedAdmin-Pro license), i cannot afford to hire ONE in US/CA/UK..., because the profit cannot pay his/her salary (and mine, don't forget i need money to live and i'm full-time working on iRedMail project), i have to looking for some talents in China mainland (where i live), then it becomes affordable. so i'm looking for some way to expand the sale.

I don't want to let the customers down, i don't lie, and I don't want to make stupid mistake.

----

Does my reply help a little? How about buying me a cup of coffee ($5) as an encouragement?

buy me a cup of coffee

35 (edited by mir 2015-01-10 22:50:59)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

You could also create two separate licenses: SOHO and enterprise.
SOHO:
- Restricted to a number of mailboxes. eg. 10
- Support is restricted to community. More individual support follows your current payment scheme.
- License valid for 1 year for 1/25 of an enterprise solution. eg. 40$
Enterprise:
- Unrestricted mailboxes
- A number of support tickets per year. Eg. 3 which can be used freely or using 2 tickets for installation and 1 ticket for configuration. An option to buy  more tickets for a reduced amount. Eg. 100$ per started hour.
- License valid for 1 year 1000$

Above is just an proposal changes will likely occur;-)

Motivation:
SOHO users cannot afford to buy an enterprise license but would likely buy a license if the prize is right. A prize tag at a level comparable to a donation will surely make more SOHO users consider a license subscription - I would definitely buy such a license as a way of supporting the project and community support for me is enough since I am fully capable of doing most adjustments myself.

Enterprises wants to be able to have support since time is considered of value to them. There domain is something else than fiddling with configuration and installation of the company mail server in which case they will gladly pay for support. On the other hand they also wants to be ensure of continuing support for their mail server since a mail server is a critical component of business and buy a solution from a small provider is a risk if the source code is not available . 1000$ for a fully installed and configured mail solution is not something which will scare an enterprise.

Just my 2 cents.

36

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

*) No one told me that he/she modified iRedAdmin-Pro to achieve features he want (in forum or email), and of course no one mail me his/her patches for new features. Some customers reported iRedAdmin-Pro bugs, but very few customers submitted patches. i understand not everyone knows Python programming language, that's fine. Or they don't really care about source code. Maybe because i always provide patch in a short time, so that don't bother to take a look at the source code themselves.

Currently, sale of iRedAdmin-Pro is the major income of iRedMail project, the profit keeps iRedMail project moving on. iRedMail project started in 2007, and i'm the only one working on this, for 7 years. but i don't think it can work this way in the future. because i found i don't have enough time to catch up other required skills like docker, cluster, Erlang, i also want to build some new and interesting softwares/products around iRedMail project,  i want to hire some talents to work with me. With current profit (from selling iRedAdmin-Pro license), i cannot afford to hire ONE in US/CA/UK..., because the profit cannot pay his/her salary (and mine, don't forget i need money to live and i'm full-time working on iRedMail project), i have to looking for some talents in China mainland (where i live), then it becomes affordable. so i'm looking for some way to expand the sale.

I don't want to let the customers down, i don't lie, and I don't want to make stupid mistake.

Hey  ZH,

the problem is, you provide a open source project, but also an commercial project.
If i change or create new features for the Pro, i dont get money from you, so i dont make it public.

I have think about to support you, but for me there some points that me don't let me do it.

I think about a license model with half closed source. The core can be closed, but it must have a open API to create Plugins etc.

A other problem i see in the code language, python is nice, but PHP is more mainstream and there are more contributor than for python. I'm current port the Pro interface to PHP, so that it is easy for me and my collegs to add some features that we need.

thats my thinking about it.

37 (edited by pbf343 2015-01-13 01:07:32)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Hi Zhang,

Clearly, your post on Jan 10 shows some frustration (comments about internal ability to grow development, etc.) and burn out which I'm sorry to hear you're experiencing. 

You've gotten some great feedback already that I hope you'll consider.   For example: 
Hansonte's 3rd option

Hansonte wrote:

require that all source changes be provided back unless they buy a special license that allows them to keep the changes confidential.

I would recommend exploring some of the above ideas and consider how to implement them.  You could even do such for period (i.e. 3 years trial) and reevaluate the situation. 


I want to chime into the vote for NOT CLOSING the source to any of it (iRedMail Pro).  You state that many do not seem to care and that is always going to be the case.  What we in the US the 80-20 rule.  80% get benefits for 20% doing work.  Anyway, the point is that there are many that will care!  They have a big impact on recommendations, etc. for long term use.  For example, we would drop the product internally, nor recommend it to clients, if closed source (and we already own "LifeTime" licenses).   

Ironically, we have also set an initiative in 2015 to start investigating how to contribute back to iRedMail and iRedMail Pro beyond purchasing licenses. 


Zhang wrote:

Currently, sale of iRedAdmin-Pro is the major income of iRedMail project, the profit keeps iRedMail project moving on.

Have you ever considered a support model?  My limited observations would suggest that the support model would provide a method to generate MORE income than sales.  It could even reach the point to where is subsidizes internal developer(s) contributing to the software and/or release models (contributions from other developers outside payroll). 


Ref. Fee/Account

buzzo wrote:

What worried me is not the closed source model ... but the price per mailboxes model...   ....  Speak frankly iredadmin ose is quite unusable for a "serious" admin's work because it has few functionalities , and the
removal of product like phpmyadmin and phpldapadmin from the iredmail 0.90 does not help.

     Really....?   Zhang, ask yourself what motivation and who benefits from such?   The 80% example....

iperkins wrote:

This new licensing model is of great interest to me. I have one small domain with essentially one user and I was thinking of adding a second domain with 5 users, all pointing to an outside address. Licensing by number of users may make it possible for me to afford iRedAdmin-Pro

     Ask these users if they would donate to such a project/product vs purchase? 

The market is for both but in doing such also increases demands in tracking the license based upon quantities of accounts.  Example: price the product at $50 for less than 200 users and at $799 for unlimited (anything in between).  You then need to track and monitor licenses based upon account quantities which takes more bookkeeping.  Plus, what about a code base to control the account number for the appropriate number of accounts.  The advantage is that you gain contributions from smaller businesses, etc. using it but further increase operational workload for tracking.   If going such route, I would recommend some tiers.  Example: product is $50 and works up till 100 accounts.  $250 up to 2000 accounts.  $799 unlimited.  Then the code base just does not exceed such number until unlocked.  Of course, if open source, who can edit (crack) such.... 

So ask yourself how others get funding without building a code base to monitor or backend for tracking account numbers...

Ref. FUNDING:
Ask for contributions and/or crowd funding. Numerous websites exist to help crowdfund projects and/or initiatives.  Review and select one which you can accept donations. 

Dexus wrote:

but PHP is more mainstream and there are more contributor than for python. I'm current port the Pro interface to PHP, so that it is easy for me and my collegs to add some features that we need.

     I do not want to start a flame war about PHP/Python, etc. here.  However, this comment should be an indication to you about ramifications to closing the source:

  • First, someone will probably fork it in Python.

  • Fork in other languages like PHP, Ruby, etc.

  • Other scenarios as well.

End result is that another "open source" project will emerge to further compete with iRedMail.  What then is your plan to retain existing clients, etc. vs lose them to Zimbra, Google, GoDaddy Hosted Exchange, etc.? 


In my humble opinion, you're revenue model for building a company is the support aspect (possibly hosting as well) of the open source project.  Example: sell support agreements and the one time services you offer now in larger scale.  Hope you'll investigate the support model and supplemental revenue methods of funding like donations, source funding specific features or ports, etc.


We all look forward to your decision about closing the source code and I'm hoping that you'll NOT do such. 

Good luck.

38

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Dexus wrote:
ZhangHuangbin wrote:

*) No one told me that he/she modified iRedAdmin-Pro to achieve features he want (in forum or email), and of course no one mail me his/her patches for new features. Some customers reported iRedAdmin-Pro bugs, but very few customers submitted patches. i understand not everyone knows Python programming language, that's fine. Or they don't really care about source code. Maybe because i always provide patch in a short time, so that don't bother to take a look at the source code themselves.

Currently, sale of iRedAdmin-Pro is the major income of iRedMail project, the profit keeps iRedMail project moving on. iRedMail project started in 2007, and i'm the only one working on this, for 7 years. but i don't think it can work this way in the future. because i found i don't have enough time to catch up other required skills like docker, cluster, Erlang, i also want to build some new and interesting softwares/products around iRedMail project,  i want to hire some talents to work with me. With current profit (from selling iRedAdmin-Pro license), i cannot afford to hire ONE in US/CA/UK..., because the profit cannot pay his/her salary (and mine, don't forget i need money to live and i'm full-time working on iRedMail project), i have to looking for some talents in China mainland (where i live), then it becomes affordable. so i'm looking for some way to expand the sale.

I don't want to let the customers down, i don't lie, and I don't want to make stupid mistake.

Hey  ZH,

the problem is, you provide a open source project, but also an commercial project.
If i change or create new features for the Pro, i dont get money from you, so i dont make it public.

I have think about to support you, but for me there some points that me don't let me do it.

I think about a license model with half closed source. The core can be closed, but it must have a open API to create Plugins etc.

A other problem i see in the code language, python is nice, but PHP is more mainstream and there are more contributor than for python. I'm current port the Pro interface to PHP, so that it is easy for me and my collegs to add some features that we need.

thats my thinking about it.



Interesting...   
How does your PHP port generate any revenue for you? 
Why take ZH work and build upon it but not offer anything in return? 
Even Microsoft has realized that the open source model is well worth the strategy.   
ZH - sorry such scenario as above exists but obviously it does.  In the end, open source will win out... 
Hope iRedMail Pro will stay the course.

39

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Dear all,

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions. Please allow me to reply below.

Hansonte wrote:

require that all source changes be provided back unless they buy a special license that allows them to keep the changes confidential.

This is not a good idea. If customer implemented some code to update the sensitive info (e.g. customer info, billing info), and customer contributes back to iRedAdmin-Pro, the code may leak my SQL structure, etc. Also, as @Dexus said, "i dont get money from you, so i dont make it public." That's the reality.

pbf343 wrote:

Ironically, we have also set an initiative in 2015 to start investigating how to contribute back to iRedMail and iRedMail Pro beyond purchasing licenses. 

I don't understand why it becomes ironical if you contribute to iRedMail project. I want to make it clear here, because you always say "iRedMail Pro", we don't have "iRedMail Pro"

*) iRedMail will always stay open source (GPL) and free. All mail services are implemented in iRedMail.
*) We're talking about iRedAdmin-Pro - the web admin panel. It's just a web-based admin panel, it doesn't provide mail services like POP3/IMAP/SMTP/HTTP, etc.

pbf343 wrote:

Have you ever considered a support model?

Open source projects have many ways to generate profit, but that doesn't means it works for all open source projects.
As you may know, we provide paid remote support service, charges USD $39 per ticket. Let me show you the numbers of support tickets in 2014:

2014-01: 4 ($116 total, $29 per ticket)
2014-02: 13 ($377 total)
2014-03: 6 ($234 total, $39 per ticket)
2014-04: 12 ($468)
2014-05: 9 ($351)
2014-06: 6 ($234)
2014-07: 7 ($273)
2014-08: 8 ($312)
2014-09: 5 ($195)
2014-10: 2 ($78)
2014-11: 3 ($117)
2014-12: 7 ($273)
----------------------
82 support tickets, $3028 total in 2014.

iRedMail is too easy to install, not many customers bought remote iRedMail installation support. And very few customers (less than 5) asked me to provide long term support before, but unfortunately, no final deals.

Now you know the numbers, it's obvious this mode doesn't work for iRedMail project.

buzzo wrote:

What worried me is not the closed source model ... but the price per mailboxes model...   ....  Speak frankly iredadmin ose is quite unusable for a "serious" admin's work because it has few functionalities , and the
removal of product like phpmyadmin and phpldapadmin from the iredmail 0.90 does not help.

About why we remove phpMyAdmin/phpLDAPadmin/phpPgAdmin, it's clearly mentioned in iRedMail-0.9.0 release notes, and we asked for feedback in mailing list on Jul 21:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?pli=1# … 5l1aDpxzSQ

pbf343 wrote:

Ask these users if they would donate to such a project/product vs purchase?

Donating doesn't work for iRedMail project. We have donate button on web site before, i received few donates, i guess it's about $300 total. yep, total.

pbf343 wrote:

what about a code base to control the account number for the appropriate number of accounts.

This is what we're going to do.

pbf343 wrote:

Ask for contributions and/or crowd funding.

Crowd funding for what? And you cannot ask for contributions/donations/crowd funding every year, we're not big project like FreeBSD/OpenBSD, we cannot get enough money to live.
Selling license of iRedAdmin-Pro is a persistent and steady way to get profit, and the most important point is, it works quite well. so we can keep iRedMail project moving on.

pbf343 wrote:

End result is that another "open source" project will emerge to further compete with iRedMail.

Customers always have choice, they choose the one matches their needs, that's good thing for customers. We cannot avoid this situation.

----

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buy me a cup of coffee

40 (edited by phillipsjk 2015-01-13 17:38:18)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

My organization is a political party. One of our semi-official policies is to use Free and Open Source Software whenever possible. By free, were are talking about Richard Stallman's Definition: Why Open Source misses the point of Free Software (apparently available in chinese)

Technically, even the "open source" version goes against (the spirit of) that policy. However, we paid for a lifetime license. In response to iRedAdmin-Pro going "closed source", we will no longer use the software. We will use the command-line tools if we have to. (I have been advised it is not burdensome to do so.) Edit: According to Stallman, FOSS means either "Free" or "Open Source" software since "Free" software is always "Open Source".

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

Open source projects have many ways to generate profit, but that doesn't means it works for all open source projects.
As you may know, we provide paid remote support service, charges USD $39 per ticket. Let me show you the numbers of support tickets in 2014:

How long does a support ticket typically take? Here in Canada commercial rates are around $60-80 CAD per hour.

You may want to charge more. Reading the "success stories" section of your forum, I see you get users from all over the world though.

41

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

pbf343 wrote:

...
....

Interesting...   
How does your PHP port generate any revenue for you? 
Why take ZH work and build upon it but not offer anything in return? 
Even Microsoft has realized that the open source model is well worth the strategy.   
ZH - sorry such scenario as above exists but obviously it does.  In the end, open source will win out... 
Hope iRedMail Pro will stay the course.

Our revenue is that we can build fast and new features in less time, it works better with our billing system. Perhaps if i'm family with python, i'm doing the same in python. But i'm PHP evangelist.

I'm like iRedMail and i have aks ZHB a while ago if he have some other Pricing for Cloud services oder Hosting Products.

I'm building upon iRedMail a E-Mail hosting product, because i and some other people dont trust, the "main" hosting companies and there or other goverments.

For me have iRedMail first 20% of the potential used, what is possible. But to get the last 80% ZHB need help or money.
When i can help ZBH, i will do my best to do so.

At last, i have the feeling that zhb not realy can work in a team. Sorry if i'm wrong, if i see the deleted "feature" requests in bitbucked that make sense, i feel so.

- now i learning py -

42

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Dexus wrote:

because i and some other people dont trust, the "main" hosting companies and there or other goverments.

It sounds like you don't trust products built by others too. smile (not a "joke" icon, just a smile, don't get me wrong, because someone misunderstood me in another forum thread)
I'm sure i cannot please you, so i give up.

----

Does my reply help a little? How about buying me a cup of coffee ($5) as an encouragement?

buy me a cup of coffee

43

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Zhang wrote:

Now you know the numbers, it's obvious this mode doesn't work for iRedMail project.

That is not accurate assessment but an opinion.  Additionally, I've seen you support at work and I understand why there are problems with some issues.   

Yes, I do understand iRedMail Pro is the actual product. 
It is ironic because because of the timing in that when we're looking to help your initiatives, you're going to close the source.  Assistance with iRedMail in the forums, documentation, IRC, etc. helps reduce your load to focus on iRedMail Pro.  Thus, assisting with both products has benefits even if one is the revenue stream. 
Additionally, you cannot take a programmer and ask them to contribute code that manages underlying systems services/software if they do not now hos parts of it work.  One off Example:  There is some basic required understanding in e-mail ports and security for someone to write code that interplays with the iRedMail (?) Adanced tab settings for enabling SSL SMTP vs SMTP, etc.  In other words, one can develop good management code if they lack experience with what it should be managing. 

Zhang wrote:

It sounds like you don't trust products built by others too.

Even more reason to keep it open source and get the support model corrected to a revenue stream as more and more people, entities and governments will be seeking secure scenarios where code review is an option. 



Zhang wrote:

Donating doesn't work for iRedMail project. We have donate button on web site before, i received few donates, i guess it's about $300 total. yep, total.

Again, a "button" for donations with little to no contextual reference from which end users draw conclusions....   Why would they donate? 

Zhang wrote:

Crowd funding for what? And you cannot ask for contributions/donations/crowd funding every year, we're not big project like FreeBSD/OpenBSD, we cannot get enough money to live.

You can ask for support for new features, new ports, cross platform initiatives, etc.   Look at how some Plone and Django projects generated revenue for add-on modules/plugins. 

Zhang wrote:

...we cannot get enough money to live.

How much do you need?  Do you think you'll get rich on this product? Have you applied to any organizations or submitted proposals to them for using your product to provide contributions back to the code and/or developer time.   Yes, I said we're looking to help...  That means assigning development time to the project which is then not funded by your budget. 

Zhang wrote:

the code may leak my SQL structure, etc

SQL - not really sensitive and to provide back code with better database structures for ongoing development just further strengthens the project and thus interest by companies, governments, etc., etc. 

Zhang wrote:

Selling license of iRedAdmin-Pro is a persistent and steady way to get profit, and the most important point is, it works quite well. so we can keep iRedMail project moving on.

No selling software is a method to generate some revenue and but fails to account for other avenues of revenue generation. 
It appears that you've made up your mind....  Good luck.



Does anyone have any suggestions for other products to replace IRedMail Pro and/or iRedMail? 

Thanks

44 (edited by phillipsjk 2015-01-14 03:26:57)

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

pbf343 wrote:

Does anyone have any suggestions for other products to replace IRedMail Pro and/or iRedMail?

Zang already corrected you up-thread. There is no "IRedMail Pro", only "iRedMail" and "iRedAdmin Pro".

Because I was annoyed by the Debian roundcube package not being used (and the new "closed source" policy), I investigated how much is "owned" by iRedMail and iRedAdmin:

root@mail:~# grep -ir "iredmail" /etc/
/etc/postfix/header_checks.pcre:#/(^Received:.*\[).*(\].*Authenticated sender:.*by REPLACED_BY_YOUR_HOSTNAME.*iRedMail.*)/ REPLACE REPLACED_BY_YOUR_IP_ADDRESS
/etc/postfix/main.cf:(3 hits)
/etc/postfix/helo_access.pcre:(7hits)
grep: /etc/fonts/conf.d/30-defoma.conf: No such file or directory
/etc/rc4.d/S03iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc4.d/S03iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/logrotate.d/dovecot:(3 hits)
/etc/logrotate.d/openldap:(3 hits)
/etc/logrotate.d/iredapd:(3 hits)
/etc/logrotate.d/sieve:(3 hits)
/etc/rc5.d/S03iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc5.d/S03iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf:(6 hits)
/etc/rc6.d/K02iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc6.d/K01iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/rc1.d/K02iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc1.d/K01iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/rc2.d/S03iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc2.d/S03iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/ldap/slapd.conf:(8 hits)
/etc/ldap/schema/iredmail.schema:(13 hits)
/etc/ldap/ldap.conf:TLS_CACERT /etc/ssl/certs/iRedMail_CA.pem
/etc/spamassassin/local.cf:(6+1 hits (user edit))
/etc/rc3.d/S03iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc3.d/S03iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/default/iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/amavis/conf.d/50-user:(6 hits)
/etc/rc0.d/K02iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/rc0.d/K01iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf:(6+1 hits (one of these must be a symlink))
..the rc?.d ones are probably symlinks too...
/etc/fail2ban/jail.local:(10 hits)
/etc/init.d/iredapd:# Author: Zhang Huangbin (zhb  iredmail.org)
/etc/init.d/iptables:(6 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/default-ssl: (2 hits)
/etc/apache2/conf.d/roundcubemail.conf:(3 hits)
/etc/apache2/conf.d/phpldapadmin.conf:(3 hits)
/etc/apache2/conf.d/awstats.conf:(3 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl-2013-02-20backup2014-06-23: (2 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl:(2 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl.save:(1 hit)
root@mail:~# grep -ir "iredadmin" /etc/
grep: /etc/fonts/conf.d/30-defoma.conf: No such file or directory
/etc/dovecot/dovecot-share-folder.conf:(1 hit)
/etc/dovecot/dovecot-used-quota.conf:(1 hit)
/etc/passwd:(the following set up the limited iredadmin user)
/etc/shadow:
/etc/gshadow:
/etc/passwd-:
/etc/shadow-:
/etc/gshadow-:
/etc/group:
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/default-ssl:(2 hits)
/etc/apache2/conf.d/iredadmin.conf:(3 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl-2013-02-20backup2014-06-23:(2 hits)
/etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl:(4 hits)
/etc/group-:

As you can see, the bulk of the configuration is done by iRedMail: "Free" software in both senses of the word. I am not sure what "iredapd" is. As far as I can tell, iRedMail istelf is basically a configuration script. It can almost be replaced by a Debian meta-package, except the configuration it does appears complex and error-prone to try to do manually. If it is not to much trouble, I may patch iRedMail to use the Debian rouncube packages.

iRedAdmin is used for administering mail users, and mailing lists. The bullet points on the website say something about amavis integration as well (I suspect it enables self-service of per-user filter rules). I have been assured that most these tasks can be done manually, but am not aware of all the specific steps and tools yet.

Edit: While trying to figure out what iRedAPD is, I came across this document: Locations of configuration and log files of mojor components (it does not mention Fail2ban/iptables.) Note: that typo is in the original document ('mojor' should read 'major').

Edit: I suspect iRedAPD stands for "iRedAdmin-Pro Daemon" Edit: According to a stray comment is the source file, 'PD' stands for "policy daemon"

45

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

phillipsjk wrote:

Because I was annoyed by the Debian roundcube package not being used

The latest roundcube stable release is 1.0.4, Debian ships 0.7.2. We want to avoid bugs in old releases, embrace new features in new release, so we use  the same Roundcube releases on all supported Linux/BSD distributions.

BTW, iRedAPD stands for iRed Access Policy Daemon.

----

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46

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

ZhangHuangbin wrote:

The latest roundcube stable release is 1.0.4, Debian ships 0.7.2. We want to avoid bugs in old releases, embrace new features in new release, so we use  the same Roundcube releases on all supported Linux/BSD distributions.

Thank-you for the explanation. The "Debian way" is to fix bugs (back-porting if necessary) in stable and keep new features frozen. This gives Debian it's legendary reliability, but does not work well for fast-moving projects.

It looks like iRedMail itself gets updated about twice anually. (In the future we are going to have to do a better job of keeping up to date.)

47

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

phillipsjk wrote:

It looks like iRedMail itself gets updated about twice anually. (In the future we are going to have to do a better job of keeping up to date.)

Twice annually is not a rule. new version will be released "when it's ready".
iRedMail-0.9.0 supports Nginx + SOGo, plus several new Linux/BSD distribution releases, and have to improve iRedAdmin-Pro, so it takes some more time for this release.

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48

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

I think the price is no problem now, $399 and $799 is not expensive for a company ...
My company expects buy $799 lifetime plan recently, apply procurement needs time, buy now see the license term will changes ... I maybe difficult to convince my boss.

49

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

Hi, I just got the pro version of the product, we migrated a small portion of our domains, about 500 mail boxes. So far the product is doing impressive. We have other mails servers but I am reading at your post here.

one question
is the unlimited version still going to be available?. i don't mind paying annually for a support/ update subscription. as a matter of fact it didn't made sense to me a "lifetime" product. Of course if has cots to support a product, nothing can last for ever with out a price. But the pear mail box cost is what made us run out of many solutions like atmail, merak and others we have use in the past. And I believe is one of your strong things..

My suggestion take the lifetime licence but not the unlimited licence..  we where checking out mailmagic.. they are unlimited but their price is crazy.. 7500 usd initial and 2500 a year.. their product is meant for ISP's but even when it is the price is crazy for a small / mid size company.

reagrds

Guillermo Dewey
http://www.ofik.com

50

Re: Upcoming license term changes of iRedAdmin-Pro, occurs on Feb 01, 2015

gdewey wrote:

is the unlimited version still going to be available?

Yes.

----

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